Mark Wickersham, Host 0:00

All right, Cheryl Nash, welcome to The Wealth Tech Podcast. I am happy to have you on the show. Be able to sit with somebody that is an absolute legend and industry and veteran that's seen it all. Somebody who's helped pioneer the separate account in the UMA space with over 35 years of experience both at FiServe and now InvestCloud as president of APL. And also just an advocate for women in the workplace and diversity inclusion. So I'm looking forward to getting into all that. But would you mind, Cheryl, just before we get into the subject matter, giving a quick introduction of yourself and an overview of InvestCloud?

Cheryl Nash 0:44

Sure. Thanks, Mark. And I'm so happy to be here. It's good to see you again. So as you stated, I lead APL, which is InvestCloud's Managed Accounts Platform Business. Our platform today connects many of the world's largest wealth and asset managers and supports more than 4 trillion in assets with over 11 million managed accounts and 4.5 million active models. So we have a very robust, large client base. But more broadly, InvestCloud is a global leader and innovator in wealth technology. We've got a couple of different business units. One that it's more focused on the front office capabilities around advisor and client portals and financial planning, then APL, which is middle and back. And then we've we've just launched a business unit called Altic, which is a private markets business unit focused on really supporting and helping operationalize private markets so that they can become another asset class in managed accounts. So very excited about that.

Mark Wickersham, Host 1:46

Well, you've certainly been a pioneer in the space. And then the um alternative investments is certainly there's a lot of discussion. I'm looking forward to getting into that area in particular. I was uh, as I was prepping for the interview, I realized we go back uh it was 25 years ago that at Fidelity we're working on getting a direct feed over to check-free APL with you and Ken. So it's uh it's been great to see the evolution of the industry. Um, certainly, you know, the evolution of UMA uh has taken place. But when you kind of just take a look at it, what are the major milestones that you've seen that kind of create today's wealth tech industry and the wealth management industry? There's been so much change, there's been kind of bigger shifts, there's a lot of buzz and hype going on, but you know, just kind of retrospectively, what have been some of those major milestones?

Cheryl Nash 2:40

So, um, I mean, I think I've been very fortunate, as you, right, to spend more than 35 years in this industry. Um, I have been front row and really in front of many of the clients that have shaped this industry. But I think what makes this so fascinating is that every decade has had its own defining moment. And that's happening again, right, from a transformational perspective. And we'll get into that when we talk about private markets and AI and all that that's happening today. Um, but when I started, much of this industry was very product-centric. Like you said, you were at Fidelity, you called because you needed an interface to set to send over to support the clients on our platform. So when I think about back then, right, the advisors were building portfolios one investment at a time, often with limited technology support. And then the introduction of SMAs or separately managed accounts was one of the first major shifts because it actually allowed the investors to own securities directly while receiving more personalization. And personalization today is one of those big, I would say it's not just a buzzword, but it's really one of those most important things that the investor is expecting from their advisor. Um, and then after separately managed accounts came unified managed accounts, that really changed the game because it really enabled investors to be able to own individual securities and sleeves and strategies in the same account and not just have, you know, one type of account or one type of asset class. So we have really, I'd say, in the industry, have really helped that grow. And, you know, we've been able to bring multiple investment approaches together into a single account structure. Um, and we've watched all this happen, right? It started with this separate account, then it moved into this unified manage account. Um, that you know really improved efficiency, transparency, and the client experience. Um, but then it's the most you know, then it's at the household level, which is what we're working on today, making sure that our platform doesn't just support the individual person, but now it can look across the household and make really good decisions around tax and things that are important to that household versus just the individual investor. So there's a lot going on in this industry, which we'll get into, but I think you know, when I think about the transformation from a single account to enabling different asset classes and the same account, now taking that same structure of different asset classes, but to the household, that's really where this industry is um, you know, has really been and moving to.

Mark Wickersham, Host 5:18

Yeah, I think there's so much infrastructure that needs to be put in place to allow separate accounts and certainly UMA with the ability to better manage cash across those sleeves. Um and I think that gets taken for granted, but I think there's a lot of similarities now between the infrastructure was needed for that and what we're seeing now with with alternative investments, right? Alternative investments have been historically, really operationally a burden, lack of transparency. I mean, I I like the joke that the the alt industry progressed to 1995 and converted everything into a PDF and that kind of stopped, you know, and and uh the the information flow has been very analog between the LP and the GP. Now we're seeing really an expansion of alternative investments. I mean, family offices have always been in alts and and have had heavy exposure to alts, even more so these days. But as these you look to become, I wouldn't necessarily say retail is the right word, but as it becomes more um into the advisor channel, into the wealth management channel, what needs to be put in place in terms of blocking and tackling to be able to better support access and expansion of that asset class?

Cheryl Nash 6:39

Yeah, and you you stated it really well, Mark. It's really when I think back on how we automated this whole industry with um taking paper-based type things and moving them into more automated interfaces and real-time data flows. It's interesting as we start digging into private markets, how that is so back to where things were many, many years ago. And private markets have really been more focused on the brokerage account, right? So training one account at a time, um, really save for the higher, you know, the ultra high net worth client. And now as we're trying to think how to move them more to mainstream, we know that we can't do that without all the learnings we did with separately managed accounts and taking all that paper base and and you know operational overhead out and help the private markets become accessible, but also um not as a is a it's a real today an operational headache to trade private markets. And it's really because there's so many things that have to be surrounding it, right? You have to be an accredited investor, there's subdocs that that are there. There, you know, there's a there's about an 8% NIGO rate. NIGO means not in good order. So when a trade is going through and something might be missing, like an address is wrong or something's misspelled, that trade actually fails and has to go back to the advisor to get fixed. So when you think about doing that in a one-off situation, that's okay. When you think about doing that in a trading environment that you're putting it into a model, you're rebalancing it hundreds or thousands of accounts at the same time. You can't have any of those NIGOs or any of those issues come into the 8% is not gonna cut it. 8% is not gonna cut it. We have uh we we when we're talking about this, we have on APL today, we have 4 trillion of assets. We run through about 2.2 million trades a day. We're saying just take 5% of that and make that turn into a trading environment for privates, and you can't have any NIGOs, right? You can't add operational staff, you'll never be able to afford that. So one of the things that the industry is really focused on right now, and we were you know just talking about this with a group of um GPs, asset managers, and wealth managers is how do you create standards? How do you create a rules engine that is enables the potentially the subdocs to actually go away and digitize them? How do you make sure that um your your data points are good? So you're not gonna have those NIGOs. There's so many things that go into this. Um and we're because of our learnings and what we've done in the past, we are investing pretty heavily in this area to automate that process to make sure that the rebalancing is more streamlined, that you don't have to add thousands of people to your operation staff to let this run. Um and we're we're learning along the way too. When you think about what just happened with the credit market and all the different redemptions, and you know, there was a lot of the GPs were backed up with redemptions. We're we're creating a product that could support that. You don't need fax machines, you can actually automate some of that. So this has been fun to go back and really um, I'd say you know, really to think about what we've done in the past, take all those learnings and put them towards something that's new. But um, surprisingly, like you say at the beginning, very, very manual. Um, so more to come on this, but the the world is going to be different. Um, you have to operationalize this, you have to standardize this. Um, there's firms that have to come together to make this happen, and that's something that we're InvestCloud is really investing in to pull together and help really drive change.

Mark Wickersham, Host 10:38

Yeah, I know uh ILPA has been trying to set some standards. I think um, you know, almost every stage of the investment lifecycle, there's a lack of standards, there's a highly manual process, everybody does their things their their own different ways. I mean, it is great to see that a lot of vendors stepping into um this area. So there's a lot of innovation in this market because I think anywhere where there's pain, like there's an opportunity, right?

Cheryl Nash 11:07

I agree.

Mark Wickersham, Host 11:08

It's been good to see. Um, because it used to be like, you know, especially on the family office side, even just take a look at the the post-execution process for for alts was like it was a pervasive problem without any any solution. And now there's multiple vendors that will that will do post-execution uh data aggregation and and communication, which is great. Um I think all alternative uh investments in in AI AI are very much uh related, right? Because of the uh ability to kind of even if things still stay document-based, can you break down those documents terminally the structured data?

Cheryl Nash 11:45

I say I say it's the two AIs, alternative investments and um and uh you know the artificial intelligence, because they're both they're both the top of mind of every single client that we have today.

Mark Wickersham, Host 11:56

Yeah, I would say the biggest uh tech trends are the three A's, uh AI, APIs, and alts.

Cheryl Nash 12:02

Uh and I thought you were gonna say APL is the fourth.

Mark Wickersham, Host 12:05

APL, there you go. Um, so we had a we had a chance to talk uh, you know, as we're prepping for this about the RA space, it's so dynamic, which is great to see. And I I I do love the industry. Um, but you know, as we're seeing a lot of consolidation take place, you see RA aggregators, you see private equity coming into place, you you see major, major firms focus the dynasties of the world. Is there a world in which it becomes a have and a have nots with with with the advisory space? Or are is it just going to be for smaller advisors the the lift too much, or is is technology gonna create that democratization? How do you see the industry kind of shaking out and in and going forward?

Cheryl Nash 12:56

Yeah, I think this is one of the most important questions facing the industry, right? When you're when you're thinking about you said the have and the have nots, right? There's so much consolidation happening. The large REAs, the large REA aggregators, they're achieving scale that would have been difficult to imagine 10 years ago, or even difficult to imagine if they were a smaller REA because they don't have that that obviously that source of investment, but even this the scale needed. Um we hear from a lot of the larger REAs that we're working with that they want to be like the warehouses, right? They want to be able to have the banking side and the brokerage side and all the those things that comes with you know the large scale. They want that to be part of what they offer to their advisors and ultimately their end clients. Um, but there is advances, I'd say, in technology. Um AI, you said that is gonna help a lot for these smaller RAAs to be able to, you know, get a claude license and do some things on their own, which they weren't able to do even two or one year ago. Um, and I don't think the future belongs just to the large firms. I think, I mean, I've lived in technology my entire career, so I always think it's been an equalizer in wealth management. I think it's going to be even more so when you think about what's happening with AI in our industry and transforming, even like the simple things, like the next best action for an advisor to give to their client. Small RAs can now do that, right? They're gonna get access to that AI, same AI that the larger firms are gonna get access to. Um, there's AI is changing everything for I think these small RIAs, because they'll get digital onboarding tools. Um, you know, they're they probably won't have all the big things like I said before around the banking and the brokerage and all that. But who knows, AI is changing the world so quickly that that could happen for them as well. Um, but I do think, and this is where, which is interesting, when we when we're out talking to our clients, it's not necessarily how firms how big they are, right? It's how they leverage technology. And I think some of the smaller RIA firms do still do things, you know, they have they have smaller teams to do things, so they still do things a lot of, you know, by hand and such, but because AI, I think that's gonna change a lot. Um I think they're gonna have, you know, they they they have less of the legacy infrastructure, they have less organizational layers, and they might have a better willingness to adopt new technologies. So we'll watch this play out, but I'm I'm not thinking that. I mean, I do think this this consolidation is gonna continue. Yeah. Um, I mean, that we're just seeing that, right? All over the place. But um, you know, whether you're a 500 million RAA, multi-billion dollar enterprise, um, you're expecting the same things, but maybe this the AI world can help them in a way in which they weren't able to help them last year.

Mark Wickersham, Host 15:56

Yeah, I I do see you do see some um basically these large RAAs and aggregators becoming basically like like the broker dealers in terms of the infrastructure that they have. I mean, Passstone is looking to become the first trillion dollar um advisor, and and you know, it's not just a slogan, they're well on their way to achieving that. I I think it is interesting that AI uh can be more of an equalizer. We've seen on the family office space, which is really interesting. The trend in the family office, talking about single family offices, is that that barrier to entry in terms of having a uh single family office for 10, 15 years went up and up and up. 200 million, 250 million. Even people can make a legitimate case that to have a fully functioning family office, you need to be at a billion and up. And now you're seeing that dramatically come back down with technology and AI in particular, that they can be really lean, they can be virtual, they can accomplish so much more uh with um AI empowering these investment teams, the operations teams. So um I I think uh I'm rooting for the little guy, and I I think there is uh uh AI is gonna be one of those equalizers. But let's talk overall in terms of AI's impact on the industry. There's I don't know. I I look people say there's hype, but I don't even think it's hype. I think the hype has been true, and the and the it the scale and the pace of change has been so dramatic. I mean, even if you talk about AI three months ago compared to now, it's it's so different. But uh, what has been the most impactful areas of AI in the industry? And where where do you see it having a big impact next?

Cheryl Nash 17:48

No, and I completely agree with you. I think it's it's you know representing one of the most significant technology shifts. I mean, I that I've seen in my career, but also, like you said, in the last three months, things have changed so rapidly. The next three months are going to change so rapidly. So it's just very interesting. Um, you know, I think when a major technology emerges, there's a tendency to focus on is it real? Like you said, is it hype or is it real? And you know, we saw that way back when with the internet, with mobile technology, cloud computing. But the reality is it's always somewhere in the middle. Um, but we are seeing AI deliver meaningful benefits across operational workflows. Like we at InvestCloud are leveraging AI in ways that I never thought we could. Um, when I think about our team, and we've got some very, you know, people who've been there for quite some time who've got deep institutional knowledge of just APL, AI is helping us get some of that information out of their head and document it where it would have taken you know years to put all this stuff down on paper. So there's so many good benefits that are just not even like what we talked about earlier, like the advisor-facing benefits like next best action and those, but there's so many benefits for internal firms, for operational workflows, to use it to summarize things, to take data that's in people's heads and have it, you know, uh documented. Um, so those there's so many valuable use cases. I just think we're way at the beginning. Um, I'm so excited to see where it's going. I don't think it replaces advisors. I think there's always going to be that human intervention and that human trust where AI does not have that. But I think it's funny, I was talking to somebody this this week from one of our clients who literally has an AI agent sitting next to them, right, on their desktop, but who is checking their work and making sure that they're in the meetings they're supposed to be in, and that it's like they're it's like their assistant, but it's all a digital advisor in the background. And she was telling me that she couldn't live without it now. Like literally wakes up in the morning and her digital advisor tells her what her day's like, tells her who she's meeting with, what the person said last time they met, like what the person's favorite dinner place is, like just incredible that she doesn't have to go search for any of that. So um I just think it's gonna be, you know, more and then that's just the beginning, right? It's gonna be more prevalent than just generating content and those types of things. But I'm excited about it. I think it's something we have to embrace. We have to be careful, right? When you think about mythos and what's happening there and all the the AI firms making sure that, or all the firms like ours and others, right? For the vulnerabilities that they're checking, it's just healthy for everybody to do that. But there will be some things that we have to just be very careful about as well.

Mark Wickersham, Host 20:39

Yeah, I think it's a good point. I think you know, AI, I uh you look at it like if somebody told me that they were gonna take away Claude, I I you would cry, right? Right. I was like, no, we can't. I don't know how how I did my job before without it. Um, but it it can be it is doing some of those things around painkillers, right? Right around these operational burdens, these manual tests, low, low-value first mile type of things, converting unstructured data into structured data, being able to manage large data sets, obviously the client advisor interaction in terms of freeing up the advisor to be more present in terms of meeting notes and follow-ups and those types of things have been great. It's an industry, Cheryl's. You know, like there's been a real um concern in the industry in terms of workforce, being able to have the next gen. There's been talent shortages. Uh it has been an industry that hasn't been really great about growing its own talent, and hopefully that will help um in that and obviously it's never gonna replace the advisor relationship. I think that human connection becomes even more important, more powerful. I I do get worried when I take uh you know a look back on a broader societal view. We we both have kids that are. Kind of recently graduated. I think that it's a really tough job market for people coming into the job market post-graduation. Like it's brutal. Like, and it seems like it's the bottom part of that workforce, hauled it out a bit. Um, and I do worry about that because what what happens when you you need younger employees because younger employees become your older senior employees at some point, right?

Cheryl Nash 22:25

So it's um that is the biggest fear I have as well, right? So I was talking to an AI expert and I said, What do we tell our kids? And um, he said, You've got to tell your kids to be AI native, digital native, AI aid, and learn everything they possibly can. Yeah, and it's like they don't they don't all want, I mean, my kids are good, they don't all want to. Some some of the we were talking yesterday, some of the next gen hate AI and they think it's gonna kill their future and all. So they're resisting it. But I do think you have to, the kids today have to be AI native. They have to learn it and they have to understand it, and they have to leverage it where they can.

Mark Wickersham, Host 23:01

Yeah, you gotta have those those skills, you gotta be able to use that that to your advantage, or else it's gonna be used to your disadvantage for sure.

Cheryl Nash 23:09

Absolutely right, yes.

Mark Wickersham, Host 23:10

Um let's talk about AI in the one area that's still a burden for many, many firms is around client reporting. Uh, still a major time sock for firms, uh an operational headache, and not exactly uh always the best client experience. Talk to me a little bit about how AI is impacting client reporting in particular.

Cheryl Nash 23:34

I think it's probably one of the clearest examples of where it can create immediate value. That's what we're seeing. Because, I mean, first off, for AI to work or even client reporting to work, you need to have the data, right? And the data has to be cleansed and the data has to be accurate. Um, there's been so much time worked on by these our clients and the industry to make sure that data that's gathered from multiple sources is validated, formatted. I mean, we spend so much time normalizing data with an APL and making sure that data is ready, right? For what for either trading or for client reporting or daily performance or feeding an advisor portal. But it's expensive, it's time consuming, and it's largely, I mean, it's not really manual today, but it's largely, you know, not as automated as it could. Um but I think AI, that's a place where it can transform that process. Um, because it's all about the data. So if you have the right data, you you can talk, like you said, Claude, you can talk into I mean you can build presentations today with Claude easily. So the same thing I think exists for the client statements. And I also think what's could benefit is that clients want things different in different ways, right? They want a personalized statement, they want to see things differently, very expensive for the firms to do, but I think AI changes that and it enables that experience to scale in a different way. You don't have to have one, you know, report, that's all you get. Um, and it's not as personalization at scale, right? That's right. So it'll be interesting to see, but that's where I think this is a place that um could be early, one of the earliest disruptors is really in the reporting um area.

Mark Wickersham, Host 25:13

Yeah, I think it's exciting to see uh what's coming out with it. I think the you're seeing it uh on the on the institutional side, the B2B side, in terms of that family office uh user or that that RAA user where they can have a conversation with their data um to query. Hey, show me all the the the expenses for Mr. Smith's uh veilhouse. And that you know, that used to be you had to do a query and know how to do filters, and you can just have a conversation now with with AI, and you can say, hey, you don't put it into a pie chart, and I'll make it a donut chart. And and it just you don't know, you don't have to know you know the business, you don't know the technicality of it, and now natural language type of interactions with that. You can uh you can get the results you want much easier. So you start to push that out to the consumer, you can imagine the possibilities, right?

Cheryl Nash 26:04

Imagine, and I think it just makes it personalized for the consumer.

Mark Wickersham, Host 26:09

So uh that'll be one in a certain way, they want it when they want it, how they want it, right? So um, you've had a chance to do a lot of different roles throughout your career. Um, what career advice would you give to the younger people entering the industry?

Cheryl Nash 26:29

So my so that I love this question, right? So um, because I talk to a lot of kids that are just either coming into the industry or women that are just trying to figure out what to do once they get here. But um I always tell them that they have to remain curious. I mean, look at you and I are sitting here talking about AI and private markets and all the things that are happening, but it's it's new, it's not things that have that we could have talked about a year ago. So remaining curious, I think, is the number one career advice that I can give to anybody looking to figure out what they want to do or what they want to be. Um, the people who, at least the people who I've known throughout my career who continue to um, I'd say thrive, they're not always the smartest people in the room, but they're the people who want to keep learning. And I mean, to me, learning, I mean, I love learning. I love learning about new things, like this whole AI and especially private markets has been so fun for me to get back in and learn. But they're the they're the people who will continue to grow, right? Those who want to keep learning. Um, another thing I tell people is always, you know, embrace opportunities that stretch you. Don't be afraid. You know, some people are always afraid, I can't do that. And they'll say no. But I've had opportunities in my career, and I'm sure you have too, where I didn't think I was ready, but I said yes, and I just growth, you know, it growth. I always say to people, growth happens when you're slightly uncomfortable. Um, and then keep building relationships. I mean, look at you and I speaking now. We've known each other for a long time. When I got the opportunity to do this podcast, I was like, oh my gosh, I would love to talk to Mark. Um, so just those relationships are really, I think, important, especially in our industry.

Mark Wickersham, Host 28:08

Um, yeah, your your network is your net worth. I would agree with that. LinkedIn, embrace it. It's not social media, uh, you know, per se. It is a much different vehicle. I I think uh, you know, staying curious is is really great. I also think, you know, being flexible. Like I when I I came out of college as a as a finance degree, thinking I was going to get into like investment management, and then I ended up in uh technology and and having never looked back. So sometimes an opportunity will present itself that maybe wasn't on your bingo card that's right, you'll lead somewhere else that that can have really great career as long as you you enjoy the work. Um you've been a strong advocate for for women in the in the workplace and and diversity and inclusion. I know you know diversity and inclusion's kind of gotten a little bit of a bad rap these days. And I don't I feel like uh, you know, we're sliding backwards on something that's really been a good thing. I think there's still a lot of progress that that still needs to be made. And I think the more inclusive we can make our economy, the the better for everybody. But tell me, you know, yeah, why are these initiatives so important and uh how much progress still needs to be made?

Cheryl Nash 29:28

Yeah, so to your point, I think we've slipped back a bit, which is really disappointing. But um, you know, there is progress made. I've seen that progress throughout my career. Um, there's more women in leadership roles today than when I when I entered the industry, um, which was a long time ago, but there's still more women, you know, every year in leadership roles. But there's so much work still to do, which is, you know, from my perspective, disappointed because I do spend a lot of time on this. I do believe that representation matters. I think people need to see examples of leaders who look like them, understand those opportunities are available to them. So that's, you know, really important for firms to still understand, despite all the thing that's happening right now. Um and mentorship and sponsorship, they matter tremendously. I wouldn't be where I am if I didn't have people who believed in me, opened doors for me, encouraged me. So I feel a responsibility to do the same. And it's something I take very seriously. Um and create the right talent, you know, create the right environment where you can grow talent. Um it's it's just really important. I was at a conference this week and it was very encouraging. Some some woman who lives in Nashville came up to me and she's like, Oh my gosh, New York has more women leaders than we sure do in Nashville in our industry, and this is so nice to see. So there's it's there's pockets still of where the you know women are continuing to grow and focus. And I still sit on women committees and I'm co-chairing a big women's event next month. So I'm still very focused on this, and I will be as long as I as long as I can. It's that important to me.

Mark Wickersham, Host 31:04

You look at like, you know, like VC funding, for example, still very small percentage actually goes to women, and an even smaller percentage goes to the women of color, which is yeah, abysmal. You can't tell me that these people that there's not talent in in those industries, in those pockets, and that we're not really tapping into that uh for the greater good as a society, that more jobs will be created for everybody when we do that. So I I do feel that you know diversity, it's important, diversity of of thought, diversity of backgrounds, having people that look like them and represent them is important. Um, and hopefully, uh, you know, as things kind of the pendulum always kind of swings, right? So hopefully things will will shift back a bit.

Cheryl Nash 31:53

I hope I think it will. I hope so. I believe it will.

Mark Wickersham, Host 31:58

I know it will. I know it will. It has to, you know.

Cheryl Nash 32:02

So it has to, that's right.

Mark Wickersham, Host 32:04

Yes. Anyways, uh, listen, like this has been great. I want to just wrap it up a little bit on a personal note. Just ask you, is there a cause that's important to you? I know I know obviously this has been part of your your lifelong work and journey around uh diversity and inclusion, but is there a cause that that's important to you you like to let the listeners know about?

Cheryl Nash 32:23

Sure, and I love this question as well. So there is a cause that's important to me. Um, so it's raising awareness around CTE, which is a concussion illness. Um, I lost a nephew who was 25 years old. He was a football player, he played football since he was eight. He was at USC for four years. The first freshman starter is a center. He went on to the NFL. Um he played three years in the NFL and at 25 years old, he passed away. And he we gave his brain to research and he had stage three CTE, which is, you know, I was just at a march a couple months ago. It's the only brain injury that is preventable in the world, right? There's so many different brain injuries, like brain items, like um you know, Alzheimer's and all and dementia, but CTE is preventable. And you see a lot of younger kids now doing flag football. You see the NFL wearing different types of helmets, but that is a um a something that a matter that I really care deeply about. And we, you know, our family's been very involved. We do a march every year. Um, we're educating. We believe if we can save one kid from this every year, then it's worth all the time that we spend on this. But um, I mean that's ending CTE is one of the biggest areas of focus for our family and myself. So, you know, I think about my career and I think about everything I do, but um, you know, this matters because it's personal. And so thank you for asking that.

Mark Wickersham, Host 33:56

Well, thank you for sharing that. I know that we've made a lot of progress on concussion awareness. I've been a youth coach and they they've you know, halfway through my coaching career, they introduced uh, you know, even just nominal concussion awareness uh type of training. I mean, there's a lot more that that needs to be done in that area, how to prevent concussions, how to recognize when somebody has one because that second concussion can be really problematic. That's fine. So um, yeah, I I think it's it's an important cause that people need to know more about. So thank you for sharing. Cheryl, this has been great. I'm so glad we had a chance to catch up and thank you for.

Cheryl Nash 34:39

Yeah, it's been great. Thanks, Mark. Good to see you again.

Mark Wickersham, Host 34:41

See you here. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Wealth Tech Podcast, brought to you by Seta AI. Seta is on a mission to modernize the family office. I really appreciate you listening, and don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. Talk to you soon.